[Gwen Osafo] Let me introduce myself really quick. My name is Gwen and I am an undergraduate research assistant working for the Black Reproductive Justice Archive. And so, Christina, would you mind introducing yourself with your name and your profession and like, where you’re from and what you do?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Absolutely. So my name is Krista Lumpkins Howard. You can call me Krista. I have the honor of being the senior trainer and community outreach, director at birthing beautiful communities here in Cleveland, Ohio. We call ourselves Northeast Ohio. So our programs and services cover Cleveland and Akron. So Cuyahoga and Summit counties. So that’s pretty much what I do.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Professionally, I am a part of Lamaze International. Kappa International. I have the honor of being on a couple of committee and boards for the Moore Institute for nutrition. Also, I am a certified life coach. I am a Reiki practitioner, I am a community health worker and a full spectrum doula. So all of that to say, listen, I absolutely love this work and what I do. So I’m excited to be here.

[Gwen Osafo] Lovely! It kind of sounds like you do like a lot of things under this umbrella, which is awesome. I don’t know how you do it all because it sounds like you might be very busy, but I wanted to know, like, what got you interested or involved with BBC?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Okay, so take you back ten years because I’m only 24, I remember that. So I was supporting all of my friends and family with their labor and birth experiences. I didn’t have a name yet. Right. But I was just there. I knew one, I cared about the birth experience and from my own personal experiences. So I have for humans. And I had two unmedicated births and I had two medicated births. Right. And with that, my last two are actually breastfed them till they were five and a half. So I was literally the mom who they would have lunch and then they would come to the car and nurse. I did that and I loved it. It was hard, the breaking, you know, weaning them off. But we made it happen. But during that time, I was suffering from postpartum depression and I never knew it.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] So I suffered postpartum depression for about nine years. And it wasn’t until my mother was like, hey, you’re not smiling. You’re not yourself. You need to talk to somebody, right? So I did that, and then I had a term for what I was going through. But I also wanted to have the conversations with my friends and family about, hey, you can have the baby. It’s a great, wonderful experience, but don’t forget about you afterwards. So that was kind of the conversation I started having. And from that I was like, oh my God, I want to do more. So I found birthing beautiful communities about five and a half years ago. But at the time, life was life, right? So I was doing I was caregiver for my parent and I was like, hey, I want to become a doula, right? I started a class and had to stop and then life got better, right?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] So I got the divorce, took my kids, my dad transitioned. And so it was like, hey, now I can do this for me. So I got certified as a full spectrum doula and I was like, I am off to the races, I love this, I call it passion work. I actually quit my job at the school district here and did this full time. I said, you know what, if we’re going to do it, we’re going to go for it because I have a passion for mom and babies and here we are.

[Gwen Osafo] I love that so much. And like kind of your story and journey through realizing like the work that you needed not only to do like for yourself, but also for like how you were helping everybody else in your community and realizing how you could turn that into, like, you know, your career and what you actually want to do. So do you mind? I mean, you kind of did have a lot of titles in there, but do you mind going through, like, your responsibilities, like as a doula, as a life coach, like as a trainer, you know, and all the things that you do?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Okay, so at BBC, I train all of our doulas in Cleveland and Akron, and what that means is they are actually having this experience of becoming a doula, but different from other doula training programs, is we teach them the foundation and the racism in America and how we got here. So we go through all of the things to know where we are today and why we are here today. So I do try to take a informational approach, but also a spiritual approach, because my main goal is that everybody understands that birth is sacred.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] And to become a doula, you have to understand you’re in this sacred space. A human is coming to life. So we need to uphold that and kind of take in some of our African American traditions that we’ve lost when we came to this capital. Well, anyway, when we’re here right now that we’re here in America and we don’t have the reproductive rights that we used to have, our bodies aren’t our own. They kind of dictate all of the things. They change the way we actually have birth. There are women in Africa who are still having birth on tents in the floor, in a fetal position, like they’re still doing that. Why are we here? And we’re laying in a bed. It doesn’t make sense. So I try to make sure that they understand our history, to know we have a great opportunity as doulas here today.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] So in addition to that, I actually assist with classes for the moms and families support group, Chocolate Milk Cafe. So we’re really pushing breastfeeding and what that means. Breastfeeding is near and dear to my heart, and I really want all moms of color stop feeding our babies formula. You can’t even read what the ingredients are on the back of a formula can. So why would you give that to your baby? But knowing that breast is best and what that looks like postpartum is huge. I had the opportunity of really kind of helping to start our postpartum program, and it’s great. We now have four postpartum full time doulas, and the experience has been phenomenal because we realize that moms need a lot of support after baby comes home and really instructing them on what that looks like, but also how to care for yourself, your family, and bringing the partner or dads involved in that conversation as well.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] On the other half, I’m community impact. I love the people, right? And being in the community. So that means just telling about the work, right? How are we going to say we’re advocating and the community don’t know we advocating. They know they need to know what advocacy looks like. They need to know about reproductive justice, birth justice and disability justice, and how we as black people need to uphold that and really just kind of hold each other accountable and what that looks like. So it’s not like moms and grandmas are a part of everyone’s lives. Not everybody has that. So if you don’t have that, you still have this doula, this community health worker who are here to support you after you have that looks like. Did that answer your question?

[Gwen Osafo] Yes. That was perfect. So my next question is on the website or on BBC’s website, it says we are working every day to change the landscape of maternal and infant health in Northeast Ohio. So how would you describe, like the current landscape of the maternal and infant health in Northeast Ohio?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] We’re in process. Okay. Here’s what we do at BBC. We like to say we’re connecting the dots of life. And what do those dots look like? We realize that our moms have social determinants of health that impact their birth outcomes. So if you don’t have transportation, if you don’t have ample space to get to a grocery store, like we have these food deserts. If you aren’t getting the medical care that you need, if you have other children, you don’t have anyone to care for them. If you don’t even know how to budget your EBT benefits or your Snap benefits, or even the wick, because Wick has changed what moms get.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] So we really want to connect those dots and what it looks like keeping it in perspective. So we’re really trying to help them to understand you’re here, but you can still function where you are and what that looks like. And we’re here to support you while you’re functioning in that space and then educating them. So we’re adding this component of life coaching and just, hey, let’s just make a plan. Whatever your goal is, once you have this baby and now you, instead of having two babies, you have three. You can still provide for your family if you need to. And what does that look like? Helping them to access childcare if they want to move and have their own place or a better place. Let’s put a plan in place so that you can have that. You deserve that, and not allowing them to kind of get stuck in this rut of, oh, woe is me, I can’t do anything. I had a baby. Right? But we want to uplift them and say, hey, we can make this plan. We’re going to work with you. We support our clients up to a year, so no matter what up to a year, you still receive all. Of our services absolutely free. They don’t pay for anything. We have moms that call us as soon as they pee on the stick.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] To those who may be at the hospital, we call them crash births where they’re by themselves, and a nurse or a doctor will call us and say, hey, we have a mom here about to have a baby, and she’s alone. Could you send a doula? And we’re there. So that’s kind of our network of support of the doulas. So we have our doulas, and then we additionally have postpartum doulas. So once mom comes home within that first 72 hours, she’s getting a phone call. Hey, how are you? How’s everything going? How can I support you? What do you need? And they’re there. So we meet with them a week after. Um. Well, every once a week during that first, I think it’s six weeks, and then after that it goes to as much as they need or as little as they need. But they always know that they have the support of BBC along the way.

[Gwen Osafo] Yeah, I think it’s great that you guys like not only have like sort of steps for like family planning, but also like even thereafter like actually integrating these practices and like building a community that people can rely on. Because obviously, like I think especially for people who are like, this is their first child, like, you can do a lot of preparation, but it’s very different when the child is here. Right? So, you know, everybody needs that type of support system and kind of like you said before, not everybody has, you know, like a mom or a grandparent in their life or just a community around them who can support them like that.

[Gwen Osafo] So I think that, you know, the work is very important and very impactful. But speaking of, you know, sort of like the family planning aspect, I was wondering if the Dobbs decision or the overturning of Roe v Wade had any impact on the work that you do for black women and families. And we know that in the state of Ohio now, they’ve reinstated the protection for abortion rights. But we wondered, like what you noticed on the ground in the aftermath of the federal reversal.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] There was a feeling of defeat. There was a feeling of we are not in control of our decision making for our own bodies. And, I mean, I think we had questions, but we were able to have healthy conversations about what this means and how we could still support. It did have an impact, like it impacted us nationally, right. Like and then I think now the state by state guidelines, it’s just it’s so insane to me. But I think it really did two things. One, it made us really bring infant and maternal health to the forefront. I don’t think we were having these conversations ten, 20 years ago, and if we were not enough, people who look like us were at the table making the decisions, right? So when it happened, it was like boom. And we were all kind of like, what is this? But being reactive at that point, right. So then it’s like, okay, everybody wanted a program. They became all this additional funding. It was like, okay, what are we going to do?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] But I just I think that advocacy and really understanding where this came from, we got to know our history and we have to know that reproductive justice didn’t just start this stuff. Been going on for like, years, right? Yeah. But I don’t think people were thinking that because you just go to the hospital that was in your neighborhood, you have your baby and you went home. But it wasn’t until, like, black women were dying. Their babies were dying. I mean, the fact that in 2024, an infant will not reach their first birthday or that they’re dying at birth. That’s crazy to me. And the numbers are alarming. So I think it brought a couple of statistics to the limelight that people weren’t really ready to handle. But we did have a plan in place and we continue to move forward. And having these conversations and doing these videos so that they know, you know what, we need to have more. We need to do more. I tell people all the time, I’m so sick of being in meetings and talking about it. Where’s the action? We really need to take action right now. It needs to happen. Mhm.

[Gwen Osafo] So speaking of sort of like I think being more I guess preventative instead of like reactionary in terms of, you know, not just Roe v Wade but also like just black maternal health in general and like infant or early infantile deaths and things like that as well. So like with the Black Reproductive Justice Archive, we seek to learn from people who are at the forefront of addressing black maternal health. So in your opinion, is there a black maternal health crisis and is it, you know, would you say it’s more of like a local problem or like a national problem or a global problem? You know.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] It’s national. Anywhere the people of color are, it’s a problem. It’s an old problem. It really, really is. And that’s one thing I will say about Lamaze International. Like women in other countries, they aren’t going through this, right? It is alarming our numbers here in America. And you think you could say, oh, they’re just a third world country. They aren’t dying when they’re giving birth. So I think it did bring the problem to our, you know, eyes. But it also made us say we need to do something about it and what that really looks like.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] So I think it was we I think we are being reactive, but I think there were conversations that were starting to take place. But I think also when it came to it just wasn’t about having sex and having a baby anymore. It was like, what are the consequences? Or what happens after you have a baby or you have sex? It brought to the limelight about STDs and safe sex and what that means, like it brought so many other things to the forefront that we’re not like, okay, is it safe to have sex? Like, do you know, you’re just like, okay, there’s some things I need to do before I have sex because I could potentially, like, die. You know what I’m saying? So I absolutely think it is a crisis. It really, really is.

[Gwen Osafo] Yeah, I would agree 100%, but considering or. Yeah, considering it being a crisis, what would it take for us to have like meaningful change in these practices and like, you know, create better experiences for black mothers?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Okay, I’m gonna say it. I think we all need to get on the same page. I think in the nonprofit space or the grassroots space, everybody is trying to vie for the same coins, but we all need to come together collectively and say, this is a problem. Now, how do we fix it? And we can do it together. Working together. I think there needs to be a nationwide conversation from the Acog level to the researcher level to the grassroots. Like we all need to come together and put us in clusters, do whatever, but we need to have the same five questions, and we need to have responses and action items about what to do, because I honestly believe, and I’m telling y’all on these calls, these white people think they have the answer. And when you know you got a person of color, they’re like, oh, we never thought about that. Of course you didn’t. Because you first of all, you don’t know what it’s like to be black in America. So how are you having conversations about black birthing persons in America? And you don’t know what it’s like to be black, right?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] I think we all need to just come together, put whatever aside. I don’t care about your PhD, your MD, your Ma, none of that. Let’s have a conversation and really write down some solutions. That’s all we need to do. We really, really do. Because everybody having a program and a nonprofit and a grassroot. It’s annoying because everybody’s trying to essentially do the same thing and have the outcome. Yeah, we’re not doing it well. And because of that, we’re not helping anybody. So that’s just my little soapbox.

[Gwen Osafo] Yeah, I think that’s actually a very powerful perspective because like, it’s sort of like when everybody’s trying to do things in their own type of way. We kind of miss the people that actually need to be helped. Right? So… and also, I do think that if it was a more of a conversation between up here and down here, like everybody could actually meet somewhere in the middle where everybody can get the care that they need and like, can get, you know, the resources that would actually make meaningful impact in their lives. Because I think sometimes with the people who are up here, we lose sight of like the day to day things that are actually needed instead of like these huge, like broader, you know, systemic or structural things that we can’t necessarily just attack in one day. You know what I mean?

[Gwen Osafo] So. Yeah, but sort of to shift because I know you’re very, you know, passionate about this work, and I’m sure there’s a lot of joy and love that comes from this work. I wanted to ask like, what is your favorite memory that you have associated with all this work that you’ve done?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Okay. It’s two. I get to be called a doula, mama. I love it like it was a coin that I gave myself. I was like, I just I love being a doula, mama. And all of my moms were like, you are a doula, mama. So instead of like, a godmother or a auntie, like, I’m a doula mama. And I absolutely love that.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] I would say I have memories. So one of my clients and she actually just called me yesterday, and she literally we were long and short in the hospital on a medicated floor. It’s her second baby. She’s like, I gotta poop, I gotta sit on the toilet. And I was like, no, I think we don’t need to do that. She ends up sitting on the toilet for, let’s say, 45 minutes, and I said, hey, you’re going to get up. We’re going to get you back into this bed or position so you can have this baby, right? She said, no, I really just want to sit here. So she sat there a couple more minutes and I just I said, are you pushing? She said, no, I just I really feel like I gotta pee, but I don’t know if it’s pee. I said, can I lift your gown? She said, yeah, baby’s crowning. I run out of the room, run down the hallway. We’re having a baby in whatever room. And they came back. The midwife runs behind me and literally we both I got on the floor and like, okay, just in case. And the midwife comes and she put her hand there and baby’s head just kind of. It was the most memorable experience.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Now, here’s the thing that was at Fairview Hospital here in Cleveland, and they still talk about it because it was just like they didn’t believe they had all walked out the room. They were like, oh, she’s on the toilet. She’s fine. And I just had a feeling. I said, oh, you’re too comfortable. Like she’s on the toilet, she’s relaxing, she’s breathing the calm. She’s doing all the things I’m telling her to do. And I was like, mm, you’re a little too comfortable right now, so I need to know what is happening. That was my most memorable moment, I would say. And she actually just called yesterday because she wanted to invite me to baby Girl’s birthday. That’s my birthday. So I was like, so yeah, that was a memorable moment.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] But I will say this at the heart of all of the work, I have three amazing daughters and for me, I am preparing for their labor and delivery experiences, also their postpartum experiences. So yeah, I think about the work and doing it every day. Like I’m just like, wow. Like at some point I’m going to shift from doula mama to I’m going to be a kiss kiss, not a grandma. And so I just want to make sure that, you know, I’m still able to be there and support them, because they don’t want any other doula. I’m like, what if I’m too old? They’re like, no, you’re going to be our doula.

[Gwen Osafo] So I love that. That story is insane. Like, because I can’t imagine, like, you know, sitting there like, no, I just, I think I just need to use the bathroom. I mean, she sat back.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] She was breathing. Oh, and I had music. Her I mean, she was completely relaxed, but she wasn’t. Let me say this. She wasn’t sitting on the toilet. She was perched on all fours on the toilet like she was in a squat position on the toilet. Oh, she sat back. I said, oh no, you are not.

[Gwen Osafo] That baby is arriving. I really do love that because honestly, like, it really goes to show like one, the importance of having these people in the room. Because like you just said, even though, I mean, it turned out to be a great story. Like, imagine if nobody was there. Like, nobody, you know, had the thought to see or say something. So because that could have been a much more dangerous situation than it ended up being. So I don’t know, sort of like just a testament to the importance of the work, even in these types of situations. But you did talk about your three children, and one of our last questions that we have is what does black motherhood mean to you.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Being the coolest mom ever? You know, I have one son and three daughters. Now, I’m gonna tell y’all I’m an only child. So I never had thought about having a baby or anything, but my son is the oldest. When I had him, I was like, baby, if we’re going to do it, we gon do the damn thing, right? And I mean, it was like my mother instinct. Everything kicked in to the point. By the time I had my third kid, my mother was like, so you’re really digging this mom thing, right? Because, you know, she only had one.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] But when I tell you, it brings me so much joy when I look at them and each of them has a component of me, whether it’s my passion, my empathy, my love, like they literally my sense of humor because they are funny. But each of them has a component of me and they just bring me joy. And I was when because they’re young adults now. Well, the older ones, it’s just so much fun, you know, just hanging with them where they are. But being a mom, a black mom in America, I want my kids to have a voice.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] And I just had a conversation with them because my one daughter, she’s at the Ohio State and she literally was like, mom, I actually spoke up for myself. Now she’s the quietest, most passive child. And she was like, I think I’m finding my voice when I tell you it brought me so much joy because she’s like, I’m in the middle of this lecture hall. And our professor said something about, um, black people. And I was like, well, wait, you’re not the representative of us? And let me tell you exactly how this story actually went.

[Gwen Osafo] Speak on it.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Like she corrected. She said I was terrified, but my professor was like, thank you for correcting me. I said, you better find your voice. So it’s those kind of moments that I’m like, man, they’re getting it right. Because for me, motherhood is preparing them for life and to succeed in it. Now life is going to happen, right? You’re going to have the ups and downs, the ups and downs. But how do you get through those times to really be successful and self-sufficient? Right. Because we don’t see that.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] And I think as black parents, we put our kids out all U18 by all this other kind of stuff. Listen, my oldest is 24. Be right here like mm love you mom. How you doing? You know, whatever. Graduated college has its own job. All of the things. But I always tell them you always have a place to come back to. You always can come here for support, love. I mean, he’s a black male. He need. He may need a to hug some days. Every time he walks out the door and goes to work, I say a prayer with him because I want him to know if you don’t feel like you got nobody, you always got me. And he literally is like my buddy. He told us he was like, my mom’s my best friend. They’d be like, really? And then they meet me and they want to be my best friend, too. And he’d be like, uh uh, nope, nope, that’s my mother.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] But we have such a really good relationship. We could be a happy hour or at the library. Like, we just really share moments. And for a black male child, I think that’s important. Mothers, I don’t mean to coddle him. I don’t need to baby him. He is a man in his own right. But he’s a man that has supported his mom and he understands that. Whereas my daughters are just as self-sufficient as he is, but they still need their mom for some things, and I’m there for them too. I think we as black parents need to learn how to parent where our children are.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Don’t parent based on what your momma did, your grandma, or whoever. Look at your children, understand your children and parent them the way that they need it. If they need a hug, if they need. My kids have had mental health days. So there are days where they don’t go to school, no questions asked. It’s a mental health day, and you don’t have to explain to me. If you don’t feel like it, that’s okay. You need rest and you can take that. So I just think parenting with empathy is something that I’ll call it. And I just love it. And I mean, they’re thriving, so I think I’m doing all right.

[Gwen Osafo] It sounds like you’re doing a great job. Like you’re you’re the way you describe your relationship with your children is actually amazing. And I would also agree for sure that, like, a lot of the time, I even think of like conversations I have with my friends now, like thinking about like, oh, when we have kids in the future, like, what are we going to do different from our parents? But also recognizing that like a lot of, like how our kids are going to be is going to be outside of our control. So, you know, it might be something to think about and adapt to when they actually get here versus, you know, trying to come up with like a system that might really change, you know, seven years from now.

[Gwen Osafo] But I think my last question is just if you have any advice for anyone who wants to get into, like, your line of work or, you know, do anything related to what you do, like, what would you, you know, say or any words of wisdom?

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] First, I would say, don’t become a doula or birth worker because it’s social media sexy. Don’t do it, because birth workers have a large turnaround and we burn out quickly if you don’t take care of yourself. I would say you have to be passionate about one – caring for people, have a servant’s heart and really want to support other people because there may be a mom who just needs you to sit with her while she can go take a shower, or there may be a mom who is sitting in a NICU that needs you to sit there as well, so you have to want to care and support other people.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] I would say if they do come into this space, be ready for the work and whatever your area is, if you just come in like, oh, I just want to be a postpartum doula. I don’t want to do the labor and delivery, really research it and look at evidence based practices. I think as black people, we adopt all the things of the TikToks and the IG and all of that. We need to start rooting for ourselves and research, look at some evidence based articles, research like really do the work to understand one. What is reproductive justice? Where do we get to why we are here? Who is anarcha, Betsy and Lucy? Who is James Marion Sims like there needs to be an understanding of our African American history here in America as to why we are where we are today. Don’t just get into it because it’s social media sexy. That’s the real thing, I would say, because it’s a lot of work and it is very taxing. But when I tell you it’s the most rewarding thing ever, it is so lovely, I love it. Mhm.

[Gwen Osafo] That’s amazing. Yes. Kimiyo, unless you have any questions by any chance?

[Kimiyo Bremer] I do, I have, I actually have a bunch, but I’m gonna I’m gonna slow them down so we can ask all of them right now. I’m gonna have you here all day. So I’m gonna keep it small. But I just like listening to you. Has been so wonderful. I feel like I’m learning so much. And this is also why I have, like, a billion questions.

[Kimiyo Bremer] But, you know, throughout the course of, you know, your interview here today and our meeting and our discussion and mostly you and Gwen’s discussion that I’ve been I’ve had the privilege of sitting in on you know, I’ve heard you talk a lot about, like, spirituality and spiritual knowledge. You know, you mentioned the Reiki or, you know, even the story, right? With the woman on the toilet or the person on the toilet. Right. You know, and I what I’m hearing, right is there is this kind of like spiritual like impulse in your work as well. And so I was wondering if you could speak to the role of spirituality and intuition or spiritual knowledge in doula work or birth work in general.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Really great question. So, I used to always tell my clients birth is 80% mental, 20% physical, right? However, we think it’s how it’s going to be. If you come in there completely fearful, then there may be a turn in your birth plan or a change in the course or where how this birth outcomes happens. But you literally have to have a spiritual connection within yourself. And I don’t care what anyone’s spiritual background is. And it’s so rewarding for me because I’ve had women of all spiritual backgrounds and we all connected because I’m one. I’m about the energy.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] First of all, if there was a client that I didn’t connect with energetically, then I had them reassigned or asked for us not to be paired together. And I think having spiritual awareness helps because you can’t serve somebody that you don’t feel connected to in some way, right? Because like I said, birth is spiritual and I just don’t want to be in your labor and delivery room. And I don’t really like you. Right? So I think it’s we have to get to a place where we’re okay saying that, but spiritually connected in that I, I took on some of their kind of woes and the pains and all of the things.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] One of the things in this birth work, when I was in a labor experience, I always started my period. My body was like, hey, baby’s coming out. We’re going to have a release as well. So I think having just a small connection really helps. And spiritually, it doesn’t mean whatever you believe in, but we’re all energy beings walking around, right? Our prana or our chi is everywhere that we go. So I just have that connection with them and it just it makes it so beautiful. It really, really does.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] And it matters when you’re in that birth space, because you can have a mom coming there thinking she can’t do it. And in the moment, I literally like, you can do it. And I whisper, you can do this. I’m going to keep going.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] I had a client who had epilepsy and had seizures. Her first baby, she had a seizure the entire time they did a C-section. She didn’t remember any of it. I had taught her mindfulness and just really breathing and just taking in the moments. So literally, we had the room, the lights were dim, and the entire time I just had her close her eyes and I was just whispering to her. We had soft music going, you know, she literally the nurse didn’t even think she was having a baby. She was like, oh no, she’s asleep. I said, no, she’s just meditating. I said, you need to call the doctors because the baby’s coming. And she stepped outside and she came back. She was like, oh my God, I thought she was asleep. She pushed the baby right out. When I tell you in that moment, she just opened her eyes and she was like. wondeful. She didn’t scream. She didn’t go through all of the things with the contractions. She really put herself in the moment to really allow her body to do what it’s naturally going to do, and she had a beautiful birth experience. So the spiritual connection is a critical component. I don’t care what your religious background is or what you believe. Believe in the energy in your body of releasing this baby to come out.

[Kimiyo Bremer] That’s so beautiful. And it’s also like, you know, I think that that’s something that’s important for everybody to hear, but also particularly like people and institutions as well need to hear things like that because we’re all about disconnect and, you know, like number data and all types of stuff. You know what I mean? And so, like, I think that that’s so beautiful.

[Kimiyo Bremer] And then this will be my last question, I promise, because I’ve really got to build more. But I think it kind of relates to what you were talking about, thinking about, you know, the connections between the people, right, who are kind of having this experience together, which I think is really like the way that you were describing it. And I was even thinking earlier, to, you know, one of your other comments that you made about the importance, right? Of, you know, the birthing parent, right, or the mother. Right, really thinking of themselves as well. And I thought that that was really important, particularly if we’re thinking about, like, black women, for example. Right. And how we’re always told we got to think about everybody else before us, right? Literally everybody else, even people who are not born yet are thought of or whatever. We got to think about them before we think about us, you know?

[Kimiyo Bremer] And so I thought that that was really, really powerful. And I wonder if you could speak more to that. You know, you know, thinking about the connection to oneself or, you know, people who are birthing, people who are doing birth work, etc.. So, yeah.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] Understanding our bodies and what our bodies were intended to do. I think that’s the first component. But also when you’re a birth worker, you need to understand the medical practices, but also understand the beauty of birth. And when you think about like, we started with this action and we had this embryo, like when you think about it from that and that this human actually grew inside of you and, and it’s going to be birthed, that within itself is a miracle. So when you think about miracles happening, we have to respect them. And I think we have to respect our bodies to realize what is really capable of doing so.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] One of the key things I tell the doula trainees is to uphold the sacred sacredness is to understand the miracles of it as well. And once you understand that, then you’re like, oh, this isn’t just me going to a hospital, just supporting her, doing her labor and birth experience. This is actually a miracle of birth happening, right? But also understanding, hey, if it goes left, if there’s another outcome, if there’s a NICU visit or any other thing happens, how do you quickly respond and change and support them and what that looks like? And you have to be able to accept that and help mom to… she doesn’t have to accept it then, but understand what’s going on.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] So once you bring all of those components of just understanding, I personally think it’s emotional intelligence. If you understand what is happening, who is in the room, and all of the things from a spiritual connection, right? You just can’t stand there and be like, oh, well, what’s happening? I don’t even understand. That’s not going to fly in a labour room. Absolutely not. We have to be prepared spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically for all the things.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] And I just actually spoke about just holistic birth worker care and what that looks like. We got to be in tune with ourselves and all of the modalities to really be able to support a mom, because you can go in there expecting this wonderful birth plan, birth, and it’s just going to be textbook savvy. And then what happens? The unknown. And you got to be prepared to shift and help mom and the family support them then. Right. You still are a doula, but you’re supporting in a different way. And that’s okay.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] But you got to keep it together, too. And I think that’s the other piece. Us as black people, we get a little emotional, right? And we just lose it. Like if something oh my God, we gotta stop that. And we have to remain calm and still be very supportive in the moment. I had a mom come in. She thought she was going to have a vaginal birth, found out she had an STD, and they were like, we got to go to the O.R. So we shifted. I’m the only one there, and they are wheeling her into the O.R. The nurse came with this hazmat suit and was like, okay, suit up. Oh, I have to go to. Okay. So I put my little gear on and went, and I’m like, alright, I’m in this labor and delivery room with her.

[Krista Lumpkins Howard] It ended up being where she actually had been in a car accident, was a paraplegic, and so a 45 minute cesarean turned into a 2.5 hour surgery where they removed a bone shard this big out of her abdomen, where baby was using as a hammock. So baby had laid on top of the bone shard. So when baby came out, the bone appeared, so they had to remove that. I stayed in there and just sang to her and wipe the tears from her for 2.5 hours while I was holding baby. In that moment, I didn’t think about, oh, I just thought I was just going to come in here and she was going to have a vaginal birth. I had to shift and support. That’s what I did.

[Kimiyo Bremer] That was beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, I’m still trying to I feel like I, I got like a billion different downloads and stuff. No. For real. I mean, that that, you know, and and it’s weird because, you know, I think, I mean, it’s weird for people who are not maybe like, doing this birth work because that’s not something that you’re thinking about, right? That like you do, kind of have to be so in tune with yourself and center within yourself that should something happen right at the last minute, you know, you’re able to pivot in that way. And also, the story was beautiful, like, you know, having you there singing with her, you know, and I’m sure she appreciated that. I’m even thinking about, like, you know, the healing kind of aspects of singing, too, which we don’t really think about as like birth work, but like, totally should be like, I think I want somebody to sing to me, you know, when I pop one out. Thank you. So much.

[Gwen Osafo] Oh, yes. I think, yeah, that’s all the questions we have today. But thank you so much for joining us and for, like, just having this conversation with us. It’s been like, literally so lovely to speak with you. And you’re such like a joyous and like, vibrant, like personality. So it’s just such a breath of fresh air.