[Arielle Rochelin] So we’re officially now recording and we’ll get started. The first question is just an introductory question. If you could please Bianca, just introduce yourself. Name, place of residence and credentials.

[Bianca Parms] All right. My name is Bianca Parms. I am… I reside in Akron, Ohio. Um. My credentials. I am a postpartum support doula. I have the pleasure of seeing now that I am a part of a birthing doula. I did my first two births, so I’m proud to say that, I’m certified in postpartum infant massage, massage educator, safe sleep and lactation education.

[Arielle Rochelin] Gosh, Bianca, you just listed so many things. I’m like, this is already a woman with, like, a wealth of just, like, knowledge, institutional knowledge about this. So, I guess on that note, given your expansive experience and background. How did you decide to become involved with BBC? Did that experience come through BBC or did you have some of that already previously?

[Bianca Parms] Absolutely. All credits to my doula, who I had with my second child, is definitely through BBC. I had the most amazing experience with having a doula the second time around with my second child after 26 years. Put it that way.

[Arielle Rochelin] Wow, okay.

[Bianca Parms] Yeah, so definitely an experience. At 44, I had my second child. So having had a child at 21, no matter what you think, you know what you think. You try to educate yourself or prepare yourself for knowing that you have a supportive person because we can’t remember everything, no matter how hard we study, try and want to get it right. You don’t want to overwhelm yourself with saying, I can do this on my own, and it’s okay not to. So with the experience of having a doula, I am so grateful that I had to say, “You know what? This is a blessing. This is I feel like it’s my purpose to give back.” So this I all my due diligence to Jackie Hinden. I’ll say that name who was my doula and she’s now our doula manager. So wonderful. Wonderful outcome for me.

[Arielle Rochelin] That’s wonderful Bianca. So just a quick follow up. How how did you even learn about, like, or maybe even explore the possibility of having a doula? Why was that something that you wanted to sort of pursue for your second birth?

[Bianca Parms] At the time, I was introduced by 211. 211 is a service, a informative service for our community. To find out if you need any help with assistance, housing, rental help. So knowing, that I am pregnant, I signed up for first term. First birthday. They help you with mom’s classes and things and items that you may need. They also mentioned, “Hey, are you interested rr have or have you ever had a doula?” And I’m thinking to myself, I’m like, no. No one’s even asked me that question. That’s not even something that was would come to fruition in my mind. So I was so intrigued. I said, “yeah, I’m very interested!”, you know and they had they didn’t tell me who was going to call. They said I would receive a call, and BBC ended up calling me and letting me know that they are a Black organization supporting and striving to help the maternal health of our Black children and moms.

[Arielle Rochelin] So wonderful. Because what BBC is doing is so unique, both, frankly, even locally and nationally. And so I guess on that kind of note, I wanted to know a little bit more about your responsibilities as officially a postpartum doula, but please feel free to expand upon all the range of responsibilities that you do. And really, I guess the source of the question is to just like, break down for us, like just the everyday, everyday responsibilities. Because I think oftentimes people have a concept of what doula work is, but they don’t really know what it means in terms of the nitty gritty responsibilities.

[Bianca Parms] Right. Okay. For myself, my daily routine, I actually have a load of… 30 moms right now. Um. I schedule based on their availability, so I let them know this is all about you. This is not something that is pressured. Or if you can’t meet. Come to a meeting. You can’t attend a zoom or you don’t get back to me on time, I am. I let them strive to know that I’m. I am solely your support person, and it’s okay to have a normal life and things happen. But just to know, I have your back. Just have you have someone to call for support. So initially, I introduced myself, I let them know what we offer. We… whether during the time I’m not doing birthing at this moment. But so the postpartum part, we let them know about helping with nutrition and wellness, postpartum care, what that looks like after they get home, helping with information about how to set up your atmosphere, breastfeeding, like, we have lactation support, their daily routine with maybe planning their meals, information about sibling introduction, helping them with the you know, the home life, introducing the new baby to the home life. We have childbirth and parenting education, family, education that I influence, transportation that I let them know we have for whether they have an appointment, doctor’s appointment. We actually… now we offer, to do interviews. So it used to be just excuse me, doctor’s appointments and grocery stores. So we provide those transportation options. So I let them know that.

[Bianca Parms] I also have my own resources working hand in hand. With different… you have different local places that will offer clothing, diapers, food resources, classes and just mere mom support day to day. I lend a ear also, you know, just sometimes moms just want to talk. I also meet up for lunch or meet up to just go for a walk as as well, you know, just to influence them to get out and walk. I also remind them that we have support groups that we offer, which are each week programs like Breathe, Real Talk Tuesday, different programs that as a postpartum support, we actually do Zoom classes about healing, whether it’s a vaginal birth or cesarean, different… different nutritional volumes, drinking, the importance of drinking your water, breastfeeding support and just it just goes down the line if whatever it is. We also ask the moms, what is it that they need? Yeah. What can we help you with in order to find a platform to help them with that as well?

[Arielle Rochelin] And that’s like extraordinary to me because it’s a conception of like Support that is so expansive, right? Because you’re talking about, like, things that are directly related to the birth and the aftermath of that, but also like mental health, you know, just real like… like life dynamics, like taking a walk. And so, to that note, I wanted to ask, like with your responsibilities and communicating with moms in the aftermath of the birth, how long is that timetable or the window where you’re providing these services? Does it depend on the client? Is it flexible? And so it was just a question about like, what’s the sort of range of time in which you’re sort of present and actively kind of like helping your client walk through all of these various components?

[Bianca Parms] Well, as a postpartum doula, I’m with mom from birth until one years of age, and they graduate. There are stages of contact, and it’s a… it’s a growing period. So usually from the, from newborn until about I want to say 3 to 6 months. I check on moms weekly, you know, and just to, just to see what they need. Some of them are self-sufficient. Someone some of them may need some little push. And then from like 6 to 9 months, every two weeks, from like 9 to 12, then you have maybe like once a month, but that doesn’t. That’s just the normal routine. But if there’s a mom who needs more assistance, then there’s no problem with me meeting with them as fluent as they need.

[Arielle Rochelin] This is like every time I talk to y’all, I’m like, this blows my mind how amazing this is. And so I know BBC, just as a larger organization, was very much a grassroots initiative, right? So the website talks about BBC’s vision is to work every day to change the landscape of maternal and infant health in Northeast Ohio. As somebody who has boots on the ground, how would you describe that landscape of maternal and infant health in northern Ohio?

[Bianca Parms] So accessibility is so important to these moms. You have different areas. And I would say zip codes, if you will, that don’t have certain benefits and accessibility to hospitals that will assist them, when you go into labor or certain doctors that are… might be a little bit better for their baby or for their health, it’s a lot of strain on the dedicated health care, if you will. Sometimes, even if you’re in a good area, the fact that you’re a Black woman and you have a Black family. There’s still a, you know, a certain, I want to say I’m not putting… excuse me…. certain risks that they…. It’s like it’s a certain care that they still won’t provide you just as a Black woman. You know, it’s it’s really sad. It’s… You… You would think even when you’re, they judge you based on the area you stay in, whether you need certain health care or not. They figure, you know, you’re less fortunate. They probably really don’t care. They’re on Medicaid. They, you know, there that might help, may not be as important, or they would probably be doing better in a different area. And we’re statistically, you know, mistreated in that… in that way where it looked in that way or that they were devalued in certain aspects. We, on the other hand, we we support all women. We have women of all races. No matter if we say we, we support and we fight for the maternity of our Black children. We don’t turn anyone around as the BBC. We have free services so they they never have to worry about wondering, well, I can’t be with BBC because I can’t afford to do that or I, you know, I don’t have the, you know, the money or the insurance to cover. We will never turn anyone around. We are a non-profit organization, so we fight to make sure we can make anything happen, whatever it is, whatever grounds.

[Bianca Parms] I want to say there’s a… a flex in the age of women, if you will, the difference of the needs of of your younger group of Black women to the older Black women. So the care… there’s a… there’s an injustice in care with that too, with the knowledge and how they handle, you know, the age group. You know, you have some of us that may know a little bit better, and then you have the younger group that are pushed into certain categories and told what to do when this is supposed to be a service. Yeah, if you will. You know, told that they have to do things a certain way when they don’t realize that these doctors are supposed to be they’re supposed to be working for you, you know, they’re supposed to be helping you and to gain that knowledge and us to help them with that knowledge and educate and influence so they understand their rights and understand how to advocate for themselves helps them put that, you know, that boundary and say, “hey, you know, I understand this, so please tell me, you know, explain to me the right way or give me the right things that I’m asking for. Please hear me.” you know, and not to relinquish their rights, you know?

[Arielle Rochelin] And thank you for, like, walking me through that. So one of the things that I just sort of wanted to ask and please feel free to speak of it from any vantage that you like, from whatever vantage feels comfortable. The question of accessibility that you brought up and spoke so meaningfully about is really interesting to me. Like, so how do you understand the problem of accessibility in Northeast Ohio? Is it, as you mentioned, like based on where you live, you can’t get access to good hospital care? Or is it like straight up people are being denied services? Is it also is it like a mixture of all of these things like, could you speak a little bit more about, like what is at the core of causing these problems of access to health care, good health care?

[Bianca Parms] Definitely a mixture of these situations You can live a certain… in a certain zip code, and if you’re not in the zip code of a hospital, that could possibly only be five miles, maybe ten miles from you, they will deny you because you’re not in their area. They will not service you. And it’s so unfortunate. It’s like, how are we allowing this. How can we get our, our councilmen and our government everyone anyone involved to say how are you allowing this separation. Because I don’t live in a certain level of income that you’re telling me I need to go 30 more miles a different direction from my home to have my child, and I’m going into labor.

[Arielle Rochelin] While I’m going into labor too?

[Bianca Parms] They will, they will, they won’t keep you. “I’m sorry. We can’t keep you here.” We don’t… And that’s definitely. I’ve been in first term, first birthday, uh, a level of influence conversations and meetings. And we’ve discussed certain issues, and it’s so hurtful. It almost makes me want to cry now because it’s like I can’t save everybody as much as I want to. But it is a real situation that if you are not in the know, then we’re just walking around not knowing these things about our… our women, our Black women in our community.

[Arielle Rochelin] These are the things that are quite shocking to like, hear about when you know them, or when you hear about them from people who know them very closely. And so like again, just fleshing out a little bit more the circumstances locally, we just wanted to ask like, what did you notice in the aftermath of the Dobbs decision, the federal overturning of abortion? We know that since then, Ohio as a state has made efforts to reinstate protections for abortion. But I just wondered, like with your clients, with the sort of BBC as an organisation, did you notice anything tangibly change in the aftermath of that federal decision?

[Bianca Parms] Arielle. Yes. There are quite a few effects with that actually influence. And then it’s still the case, even when even when young ladies don’t have the money to be able to change their circumstances. We have a lot more moms that are having children that really don’t want, didn’t necessarily want to have children that are in situations like that. And that is a high level of mental health crisis, honestly. You have certain young girls that don’t even understand what postpartum is, let alone postpartum depression. So now you have these young girls, and some of them are not in the know, not in a lot of our services. Some of them are in our services. So we do… we’re able to grasp this understanding that we have a lot of these girls that are falling into depression because they don’t know what to do with these children, these babies that they’re having. You know, they’re not with the gentlemen or they’re in a situation where they got pregnant by accident, you know, where someone that they really don’t know. So they’re mentally there’s a different state of mind. So now, not only are these mothers at risk, these children are at risk.

[Arielle Rochelin] Yeah. And I guess just to switch gears a little bit we really also part of what we want to do is emphasize the joyful aspects of the work, because I know there’s so much conversation – and we’ll have more – about maternal mortality, infant mortality. But we always want to know some of the joy, too. So we wanted to ask, like, what’s some of your favorite memories, the things that give you joy and energy and that make you connect to what you talked about earlier, your purpose?

[Bianca Parms] Oh my gosh. Well, I like to share the fact that I have my first couple experiences over the holiday with birthing. So I had two births to my first birth. I cry like a baby. I don’t know, like it was my baby. So just the trust and the loyalty that these women relinquish to you makes. It’s the most gratifying. I… it’s liberating. I can’t even explain it because everything that I put into having their back, making sure that they’re okay during these laboring and making sure they have what they need, making sure they, they just having their trust that they like I… I had a mom that said “I trusted you with my life and it paid off.” you know, and I’m, I think I’m just a I’m a softie and a crybaby about that. But I’m so for our just being a Black woman and and striving to do everything we can to, to understand that we do have great community amongst each other. Yeah. It’s just understanding how to… Doesn’t matter. Every everyone’s a diva. Black women aren’t the only ones that are divas. But we have strong personalities, don’t we? Yes, but we respect each other. And that’s the biggest factor. It’s not personal and just just letting you know. Women know that they. That I understand you and it’s okay to have this bad day to day and that they, they soften up and just to see some of the moms soften up and say, “I am so happy that I had a doula”, their moms, their families saying, “I don’t know what they would have done without you. I know I couldn’t have been in the room and doing that” just after birth. Later on, the excitement of going to see the baby. A week later and the moms are just smiling and happy to see you. Like you’re part of the family, you know, and that everything you said this helped me. Oh, I see you now, Ariel. I see you now. Um. I see you now. Sorry not to put that in.

[Arielle Rochelin] But no, I love it. I love it because I’m up here. Rap. I’m fascinated by everything you’re saying. So I’m glad you can see this.

[Bianca Parms] And that’s the more they they relinquished, more loyalty and more trust. They introduced you to their other children, their family members and say, oh, this is my doula I was telling you about. And I’m like, you’re talking about me now. Thank you. Being able to come in and see their atmosphere and they’re just like, it just it’s so warming. It’s in the growth of their children. The breastfeeding, the… the knowledge that they’re telling me, “you know, I did this and that worked. And I’m still, you know, doing this, you know, doing certain things to help, you know, with the baby or in the middle of the night” or, you know, it’s just there’s so many aspects that are that continue on and on. And even with graduation, when we get to certain levels, when they’re starting to walk, when they’re starting to talk, they’re sending me pictures from texts saying, oh my gosh, you see this tooth? It’s coming in. Or they have, when it’s time for graduation, it’s like, oh, I’m not ready to leave you. And although we still relinquish the service of saying, okay, now you’re not you may not be part of BBC. You’ve… you’ve made it. Here’s resources. You’ve strived. You have everything you need and you’re you’re the best mom. I can’t imagine anyone else for this person that you just created. They you know, they’re strongly advocate after that. And that is like the best. The best for me, you know?

[Arielle Rochelin] I mean, thank you for being a change maker because I, I mean, as somebody who looks at like Black women and activists, I’m like in awe talking about or talking to you, but also talking about you as we will be doing because these are… you are, you know, part of this legacy of like Black female activism community, grassroots change makers who just are transforming communities. And you mentioned something about graduation. You got to tell me about that. So is that like a ceremony? How does that work?

[Bianca Parms] It is a ceremony, and it’s it’s over Zoom because there’s so many moms at one time, okay, that we give them a platform. We they take the time and we literally… they, they will slide of graduation certifications and we say their name in full before they do that as their doula, when I do their exit, there’s an exit form that I fill out. “How do you want your baby’s name presented on their graduation certification?” So that’s fulfilled first. And then we just have a slide. Then we give the moms a platform to say, “Do you have any comments or anything that you want to share?” And it’s really it’s it’s a wonderful experience.

[Arielle Rochelin] That’s so meaningful. And I just want to pause on that because that’s helping me think to take the time to do a graduation. Right. What that means symbolically for, you know, a mom, what that means for the baby, what that means for you as somebody who’s been throughout the process to be able to say, like, “I acknowledge that there is a sort of growth that has happened, that you have learned and you’ve progressed.” I think that’s so incredibly extraordinary. And I guess, you know, to to, I guess, continue with this line of questioning about joy and maybe skip to a different question, what would you want somebody who’s getting into this work to know?

[Bianca Parms] Be ready. Be ready for the heartache. Be ready for the joy. Be ready for your growth. Be ready for the fight. Be ready for the reward. You know. And never give up on your word.

[Arielle Rochelin] It’s a word.

[Bianca Parms] Never give up on yourself. Because when you… when you look at yourself and you understand all that you would actually strive for, would want or desire or want to experience, you have to understand that they need… You have to replenish that somewhere else too. In order to understand the necessity of our needs, it’s a purpose I really feel like, It’s definitely a purpose. It’s not a job. It may feel like daily duties, but it is not a job whatsoever. I feel like it’s a responsibility that I have. In essence, of not just a reflection of BBC, but a reflection of myself.

[Arielle Rochelin] Yes. Thank you for sharing that. That’s so powerfully, powerfully said. I guess to sort of veer to the sort of summative questions and the big questions for us as an archive or really, as I mentioned earlier, trying to learn from people who are at the forefront of all of these issues. And so we just want to ask, I guess, very bluntly, in your opinion, do you think there is a Black maternal health crisis? And how would you how do you see it? Do you think it’s a local national problem? A mixture of both?

[Bianca Parms] Yes yes, yes. Arielle. It’s a mixture of both. I believe it’s state. I believe it’s globally. I believe you know… Mhm. Um. It seems though in us it seems like we’re, we’re worse than the undeveloped nations with all, with everything that we have. We’re worse than the undeveloped nations that are learning how to survive, if you will. We have all the education, all the money, all I mean, everything that we can have responsibility for. But you gotta think we you would think that the more money that you have, the more you can improve your lifestyle, the more you can improve your health. But if you will, if you if if you don’t mind me saying the stories of Serena, the stories of Beyonce, these are millionaires, almost billionaires. Yup. And almost lost their lives having their children and yeah. And the main thing that stuck with Beyonce said she said I had to keep repeating myself. So she was like being unheard. So just imagine someone 18 scared, you know, you’re you’re going into labor, you’re going into these doctor’s offices and they’re telling you that what you’re going through this and you need to do this and there’s there’s really no support. So there’s always fear. Sometimes unless you really get a good doctor that cares and and there are some. Mhm. But you’re basically told what you’re going to have to do this and you got to take this medication and you’re probably going to have to have a cesarean or you’re probably gonna have an induction and all this information, these words and they’re like, okay, I don’t understand this. And they’re not asking because they don’t know what to ask. So then you’re going into these laboring situations and you’re told you can’t do anything and anything, you’re going to have to get pitocin. And if you don’t have anyone advocating for you or educating you and letting you know that you have a right to this, and let’s create a birth plan. What do you not want to experience? Do you understand what induction is? Do you understand what intervention is? You know, but you would think at a level when you become wealthy that things would change. But that doesn’t change. That.

[Arielle Rochelin] No. Please keep going. Bianca. Go for it.

[Bianca Parms] It’s we we we empower to educate. We empower to empower. We educate moms with signs and concerns. You know, how to identify what questions to ask. No question is a bad question. Just because you don’t understand even where the circumcision is. That’s not a question that’s like, you don’t know what that is. We want to make women understand it’s okay not to know because we’re all teaching each other. I’m learning things every day from my moms every day. And it doesn’t mean like, oh, well, guess I shouldn’t be a doula since I don’t know that. No. We are. Life changes. Technology changes every day. So we’re amongst we have to be amongst each other and have great community to to strive, to live, to understand, to educate, you know, and to give a platform to say it’s okay not to know. And you can ask here. It’s a safe space.

[Arielle Rochelin] And I can only imagine the difference that makes for a young mom to have you in a room to be like, okay, if the questions I miss, She’s got me right. She’s got my back. That she she’s there to be a support system. And, I wanted to ask that, given that, you know, that this is a serious issue and you already talked in some ways about a solution like education, right? Making sure that people are aware. How do we as community members, right, generationally share this information? No question is a bad question, but do you have any other recommendations that you would suggest when you think about this issue, it being not just a US issue, but a global issue, and frankly, we’re doing worse, as you mentioned, than some, you know, sort of other countries. What would you do to try to change this? What do you think would meaningfully make an impact?

[Bianca Parms] Going to community forums, going to… We have… Right now I am on. First and first birthday. Levels of communication. And what that is, is we’re all resources coming together. Get an understanding on how to master getting information out properly to the community about all these resources to help these women, know where to go. And just being active, you know, knowing is half the battle. Yeah. I never knew anything about this type of information or, or forum or meetings to service my community until I became a doula. So that tells me even just my just a regular mom. Unless there’s something being sent to me, I’m not going to be able to. These platforms, these moms can come to these platforms. So sometimes we influence we’ll invite some mothers to come speak and tell us what is it that you feel like should be changed in our community and how can we help? You know, we do. We have these platforms. And so I’m boots on the ground, like you said, I am very much boots on the ground. So I hand in hand. I go to churches who have food programs. I go to some. I work with a lot of the programs here in Akron with that, the pregnancy centers that have like education and supports for the moms, the families, they give you diapers, just any information because I continue to receive that information in order to give it. I would place myself in these programs, in these classes so that I can understand the emotion, the effects, the feeling, the understanding. And then I can go back and say, this is an amazing class. It’s no pressure, but it’s there for you, you know? So it’s just really having community to having the responsibility honestly, to bring back what you can to educate your community and understand where these resources are held, where these different platforms are held. A lot of them are at our John S Knight Center is really big and it could be advertised. And so there’s certain moms that may not have internet. They may not get that flyer at the library. You know, so we’re trying to figure out where are we lacking? Do we make sure we leave this stuff at the Wick office? Do we need to see what doctors will participate and sit these in here for our for our moms? You know, it’s it’s it’s a different we’re striving to find different areas and angles to make things available.

[Arielle Rochelin] And I love how you talk about like the angles of communication, to use your phrase, so expansively. Right. Because I think people think communication be like, oh, post something on social media. Boom. bang. Done. And you’re talking about churches, you’re talking about forums, you’re talking about classes. You’re talking about this huge, expansive network that thinks of education beyond like 1 or 2 things. Right? To really get the message out. And, I love that you all are so integrated with community and you understand community so expansively. And I guess to continue the idea of asking you to define things in your own way, how would you, in similar ways to how you define community and how what it means to be educated and how to deal with this issue? How would you define or think about Black motherhood? Because that that idea or that concept is so political, it’s so politicized. It comes with so many ideas in people’s brains that, again, as somebody who has such a wealth of knowledge, what do you want people to know? What do you think about Black motherhood?

[Bianca Parms] Black motherhood in itself. Is a different phenomenon that only I think only Black women can understand. It’s it’s a it’s a strengthening it’s a soldier type of steadfast. I’m going to make sure that my children have this. I’m going to fight for this. I’m going to be strong, so I won’t, so I won’t, you know, let my children know that I am really sad today. And then you have a certain level of I’m so depressed that I think that my children are noticing or that, you know, I really need a shoulder to cry on. I need some sisterhood, I need the support of my significant other, and they don’t understand. You know, it’s motherhood is. It’s never a burden, but it’s always a daily strengthening. Like, we always need some type of effort. We need to understand how to. This affirmation, you know, needing affirmation, trying to constantly keep yourself built up to this standard because we’re always viewed as. Not just a mad Black woman, but, oh, they’re strong. They can handle it. Yep. Well, we’ve had no choice. So since we’re in that stereotype, we stand in it like this and it’s not for a Fight for the community is to fight for understanding. It’s a fight for support. It’s a fight for what we deserve. Normal, you know, normalcy. You know, it’s fight for our children, you know, a constant dedication to ourselves, you know, a constant dedication to our mental health, to our self-care. And a lot of times we forget about that to the wayside because they’re so busy caring, caring and caring, caring and caring for our children and everyone else besides ourselves. So we’re constantly not just a mother in the home, but we’re just constantly mothering everywhere else. And. We have to learn that it’s okay to let go. It’s okay to ask for help it’s okay to to get support. It’s okay to be wrong. Mm. Mm. It’s okay to not understand. It’s okay to educate. It’s okay to. Be wrong. Um. It says it’s so many degrees of being a Black mother. And I, I commend any level of it, because stepping into motherhood as a Black woman, just in itself. Is a righteous, righteous, divine blessing.

[Arielle Rochelin] Could you have like 15 bars in your answer that were so, like, amazing? Just like a couple of my favorites, right? Like that. It’s divine. It’s righteous. I love that you talk about it’s not a burden, but it’s an aspect of daily strengthening. It’s caring and carrying that unto itself that make that a song. That’s just that’s that’s so, so wonderfully said. And I thank you for trying to encapsulate something that people shorten and adding all of these layers to it because it’s layered, it’s complicated. Right. And so I just deeply, deeply appreciate your insights. Bianca, thank you so much for just sharing all of your knowledge. I want to add my voice to the voices of community members who’ve already thanked you. But truly, I’m in Atlanta and I think what you are doing is extraordinary. Extraordinary. So selfishly, I’m just like, let us learn from these women so we can try to the best of our ability to replicate what they are doing. Because this is tremendous. You know, as somebody who’s an auntie, I’m in a baby room right now, actually. So similar. I’m in my nephew’s room and my sister has given birth, so it’s through her. I’ve been learning some of these things, and I’ve just. I’m in awe of, again, changemakers like you and what you, you give to women. And I know just a little bit through her of how it requires a village. So thank you for what you do. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Just thank you because I think it’s just extraordinary. I do want to ask one last thing. Is there anybody from your perspective that we should reach out to? So we’re trying to chat with all of the people at BBC. We’ve that we’re definitely still kind of going through the Rolodex. But is there anybody you’d recommend or anybody you think, you know, we should sort of have our eye on that kind of thing?

[Bianca Parms] You know what I would say? Of course, those who work with the maternal health issues, you know, we have our we have Summit County, but we have our program. So Summit County Board of Health. So they’re the ones that kind of put together a lot of our programs. So if you have a board of health, those who work on the maternal health issues, I would they have meetings that we don’t know about, but we’re amongst each other with them. Those who set law, let’s set laws and vote. And say even some Black mothers, you have a you might be able to reach out to some of the Black moms and, and, and they’ll explain to you a lot of the services they receive from wherever they go to for their doulas or, you know, just in general. Sponsors. Okay. Sponsors. We have sponsors, but I’m sure we’re not the only program. But sponsors will tell you more than anything how they how they see things as well. That’s why they sponsor us. Because you it gives you a heavy heart to do so.

[Arielle Rochelin] Now that would be really great. We haven’t yet hit on the sponsoring side of things at all. Do you know of any Black moms? And again, no pressure because I know that a lot of that is a very intimate experience, and I don’t want to step into spheres that are very, very sort of like special and set apart. And I want to be respectful of that. But would you know of any moms that we could reach out to that may want to maybe interview if they if they feel comfortable again?

[Bianca Parms] Yes, actually I do, I do, I do, and if you don’t mind I’ll talk to some of them and then with their permission, I’ll email the information.

[Arielle Rochelin] That’s perfect. Excellent. I was going to suggest the same thing. No pressure whatsoever. If they say yes, just reach out. If not, I’ll just assume that, you know, they definitely not up to it for whatever reason. So no pressure whatsoever. Thank you once again, Bianca. This was so wonderful. Wonderful. So just to let you know, we’re in the process of, like, building our sort of, like, web design component. The vision over time is that this will be public history. So building an archive of your voices for researchers, public historians, activists, for people just to learn from you. Because, again, we think what you’re doing is extraordinary. So as those things roll out, I’ll be in communication again, not for asking for anything, but just to let you know, like, hey, it’s about to launch or hey, you know, we want you to know that like your MP3 can be found here on the website. So as it rolls through, you’ll you’ll probably get another message from me just letting you know about the different steps and how grateful we are for your contribution.

[Bianca Parms] I did fail to mention one thing. We also have a program which is this should never slip my mind. It’s birthing moms unchained Project, which we have, we provide services to our incarcerated women who are pregnant.

[Arielle Rochelin] Thank you so much for referencing that. We are trying to chat with. I think her name is LaTonya White. Who is it? Yeah. So we’re trying to see if I can, like, we can schedule her and have an interview with her because she’d be so wonderful to talk to. Because that’s another thing that’s blowing my mind. I’ve heard a little tidbits about the realities for incarcerated women in pregnancy, and I was like, I was getting upset.

[Bianca Parms] So it makes a difference because they’re just not shut out and they’re mentally they we definitely need to reach our women.

[Arielle Rochelin] Excellent. Thank you again, Bianca. I’m so, so thankful. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you humbly.

[Bianca Parms] Thank you. And I thank you for having this platform because this is what we need. This is what we need. You are actually doing your wonderful due diligence with support because this is a platform. This is part of the link. This is part of.

[SPEAKER_S3] Our.

[Bianca Parms] Being having good community, you know, being able to reach out and send this somewhere else. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you, thank you.

[Arielle Rochelin] That means the world. So I’m going to like guard that in my heart and just keep it as my little nugget, because, you know, it’s my honor to be a small mouthpiece that can blast out what you all are doing on the ground so that hopefully, as you do your educational initiatives, as the this gets bigger as an archival space, you can just be like, go here, go to this website, see all of the oral histories, because that’s what this this is oral histories of what people are doing on the ground. So you get a sense of that. So thank you. But you know, we’re just partnering with you in a very small way. Take care of Bianca. I’ll I’ll pause now. Thank you so much. Once again. You enjoy your rest of your afternoon.

[Bianca Parms] You too. Bless you. Congratulations to your sister.

[Arielle Rochelin] Thank you, I will. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Take care. Bye bye. Bye.